Welcome back to the executive series! This week Bill interviews industry veteran Dan Ellsworth, founder of TCQ Solutions. Dan shares his journey from growing up on the farm to strategic marketing leader and M&A consultant, offering valuable perspectives on what's missing in B2B and agricultural marketing today. Discover how genuine storytelling, mentorship, and innovative AI applications can revolutionize marketing in the agriculture industry.
Whether you're a marketing professional, ag industry insider, or simply curious about the future of food and farming, this episode offers a wealth of practical insights.
Bill: Welcome to the Missing Half podcast where we're discovering what's missing in manufacturing and B2B marketing. Today I have a very special guest. I've been really looking forward to talking with, Dan Ellsworth. Dan is a strategic thinker, a strategic manager. He's been involved in sales and marketing most of his career in the ag and animal health space. So we're really looking forward to getting some insight on what's missing in the ag and ag health marketing world. Dan, thank you for joining us today.
Dan: Bill, it's great to be with you today. Appreciate the opportunity to spend some time with you.
Bill: Excellent. No, I appreciate it Dan. We had a joint project we worked on several years ago in a marketing, in the marketing arena for Cambridge Technologies. That's where we met, got to know each other. Since then, I've been watching your career and other things you've been involved with, very exciting things as well as your move to Colorado, re-imagining and kind of transitioning the family farm. So it's been great to kind of participate and watch that happen.
Dan: You're far too kind with your comments, I appreciate it.
Bill: Well, Dan, whenever we look at these conversations, we'd like to start early with education and career. And I think especially when we look at folks like us who participate in agricultural industry, the animal health industry, there's usually some genesis or some early experience that is much more prevalent than I would say in other industries as far as people then working there. So could you maybe start, you know, maybe back on the family farm or wherever that started and kind of introduce us to your story.
Dan: Sure. What started kind of typical ranch kid grew up on a cow-calf operation, small operation. Dad was an ag teacher. So I went up through 4-H and FFA and was the state vice president of Colorado. And I kind of got into more of the public policy side of ag and thought process and telling the story. A little bit of a different approach in college. Still try to justify this to my dad, even though he's not here anymore, but my degree is actually in political science. And the reason I chose poly sci was I thought I wanted to go into water law or do the law thing. But fundamentally looking back at it, when I was growing up on the farm and in FFA in the 90s, agriculture was 2% of the population. Since then, production agriculture, since then it's dropped below 2%. And for some reason, Bill, I don't know why, but it occurred to me to think, well, if we're 2%, that means that there's 98% out there that I don't understand. And I don't know what their thoughts are. And so I took the poly sci degree a little bit to try to challenge myself to get out of my comfort zone. As a state officer, I was well ingrained in the ag community in Colorado. I knew a lot of the ag kids, it's a small community. So you kind of know everybody. So I had an interest in trying to see what else is out there. And it was interesting because in my poly sci classes, I was seen as kind of the crazy redneck conservative. What shocked me though, Bill, is I was still having ag classes and I would do ag economics or ag policy. And I remember being in an ag policy class and we had to write a position paper and the instructor goes, hey, I don't want any politics in these papers. Where's my poly sci major? I don't want any liberal nonsense from you. So we get so tied into our own little world, our own little echo chamber that we don't, you know, we have our perceptions, but sometimes I think we lack perspective. And so that's kind of, you know, ag kid, poly sci, actually got out and started with sharing plows as sales rep, because I got done with my four year degree and I'm like, I actually need to start paying for stuff now and did an MBA instead of going the law side. So that's a little bit of my background and kind of some of the foundational philosophies I bring throughout my entire career.
Bill: Great. And your MBA is you went to Columbia, correct?
Dan: No I actually went to an executive program in, in Nebraska. I did just do a Colombian, it was an M&A continuing education, type of, of program. So yeah, it was, I forget how many hours it was, but online, you know, just trying to sharpen the saw. part of my practice that I have as a consultant is doing and a, and, it never hurts to kind of continue to try to be sharp, and continue to look for additional ideas to try to be a better servant to my clients.
Bill: Great. So when you look at that genesis of your career, you started on the farm and then you grew up in it. What is your perspective on? I think the recent numbers I've seen is like a six tenths of 1% of all Americans are on the farm now. Where are we going to get the next generation, not only of farmers, but of ag and animal health industry workers? From all levels, from the laboratory technician, from the programmer for the AI, like the whole way up through the value chain to the CEOs, where are we going to find that worker, that professional?
Dan: Well, I think it is beholden upon us that are in the industry today to really do good mentorship and find that next generation. I think one of the things that I'm noticing in the market is that there's almost a desire for what's genuine, what's real. We see so much on the social media, the Facebook, the TikTok, nobody puts their bad self out there, right? They're always putting their best and I think it's fake. And I think that one thing about agriculture and one thing about our industry is you can't fake it. You know, you have to have substance in it. You have to be substantive. And I think that people are going to start looking for those opportunities that are real and our industry is real. I mean, no matter how good computers get, I've never seen a computer to go out and pull a calf. You still have to go out and you still have to live with those animals. And I think people are looking for that. And so I think we just need to be open that we don't have to have the exact background is like you and I have had. And I also think that some of the urban agricultural efforts where people are starting to grow their own gardens, they're starting to do some things where they're trying to get back in touch with the land. I think we need to be aware of that and we need to be open to it. And our universities really need to start focusing more on technical skills as much as educational skills. I have a four year degree and an MBA and so maybe I should be a little cautious here, but we gotta help kids at every level, starting in elementary school through junior high, high school, college to get their hands dirty. And whether that's mechanical, whether that's, you know, we live in such a sanitized world. We have to take the sanitation out and be willing to get dirty. And so first is identifying that next generation that's willing to get dirty and then giving them the opportunity, encouragement, and mentorship.
Bill: I also think we're going to have to do when we think about that mentorship, there's going to be some fundamental or foundational training and experiences we're going to have to offer this next generation of what I would call more like transplants into the ag world because, you know, my kids grew up, I've grown up on the farm. They have had that experience and whether that's getting manure on them or grease or learning colorful language whenever the wrench slips like those are experiences that you and I shared and that our generation of people who've went from the farm and stayed in industry will have had. And I think we're going to have to do more of like, okay, here's what it's like, much more foundational training. Cause a lot of these young people, and I agree with you, I think they want a connection. They want to go back because everything isn't TikTok and Instagram and these influencers who, you know, they never show anything bad. I mean, these are the most perfect people you've ever seen in your life. Everything is perfect for them. It's all rainbows and cupcakes. But so I think that's going to be an interesting challenge.
Dan: And I think we take too much for granted. We take our background for granted. And with our kids, I mean, I spent a lot of time moving from place to place. So I did the corporate thing and we went from Colorado as a sales rep to then Omaha as a, as a, as a inside sales manager and regional sales manager. And then to New Jersey as a marketing person and then back to Kansas city as a marketing role. And then to the Twin Cities as a VP of marketing and then to Wisconsin as president CEO of a company. And I jumped my kids around a lot. And so they didn't have that experience growing up on the farm. And I take it, you know, for granted. And, and we would, I remember stories of loading the boat, we had a boat. So, and the kids are like, why do you get so angry when we're loading the boat? Like you need to relax. And I go, well, I probably do need to relax. That's fair. But do you understand the risks that we're running with this size of equipment? It can happen quick. Somebody can lose a finger, quick. Somebody can lose a life, quick. And I think that's the other thing that, you know, people, and I know pets, a lot of people have pets. I think that's very important that they have that because we need to understand the value of life. And that's the thing that we learn in ag. And that, you know, I had a lamb one time that had broken hips and I worked on that lamb for three days. I was a freshman in high school. It wasn't getting any better. So I had to, we had to put that lamb down. That's a fact of life. And my dad's like, well, I'll do it. And I'm like, no, I've cared for it. I'm going to do it. And to have life in your hands and then take it, even though that's hard, it's better for that animal. I think understanding the magnitude of life, which also goes to the magnitude of relationship. And then building those relationships and how important that is and how precious that relationship and that interaction is what we have. And I think we take that for granted coming from an ag background that everybody will fit the world that way. And unfortunately they don't. And so the other thing is that when we talk about ag, everybody is impacted by ag. And I think we need to broaden our approach. But what does that mean? And that it doesn't necessarily, you know, you don't necessarily have to have cows or chickens or that kind of stuff. But, you know, we're going into grocery stores with the MOO'V product and dairy managers, and they're involved in ag and their interest and knowledge, like their desire to understand where their food, where the milk comes from is phenomenal. And that's the same thing with consumers is that I think that we're, while it may look very dark and sometimes for ag and for people being away from the farm, the interest in quality food and source of food, you know, has never been higher. We also need to work on the cost because quality, it's a whole lot more expensive to go buy a good steak than to buy a McDonald's hamburger. And we've got to, I think, internally and executives at high levels. We can address those things, which then will also get to your question about how do we bring more people in by being open and creating that transparency.
Bill: Yes. Yeah, I think when we look at the specifically the food space, people are more interested in knowing about their food and there's just so much more information available and we have to because we are not healthy. Our country is not healthy and something's going to have to give. And the only way I see out of it is like the United States is a democracy and it's about independence and independent thought, decision making. People are going to have to make better, more informed decisions about their food. And the reality is right now, if you make those, and everybody can have their own opinion on what's good food and what's not, but the point is that the quality food that my wife has access to and purchases, I know is way more expensive than the low quality food. And that's a fact. And whether it's, you know, whether you're, I happen to be, very excited about eating meat at almost every meal. That's my personal choice, but some folks are in that vegan or vegetarian or these other type of dietary lifestyles. All of that stuff is expensive. And we have to, I agree that we as an industry have to figure out how to get quality and cost into a more, and more of a balance as opposed to being, you know, on opposite ends of the, of the curve there. So, well, Dan, you mentioned, so you kind of did around the United States in a minute and a half with your career, right? In all those different spots that you held and those different positions that you held. One of the things that we do here in the Missing Half podcast is we want to discover from our guests what they believe is missing in marketing. What do you think? So you've had a lot of different experiences and we're going to go into those in some detail, but maybe just like as an overview, what are some things you think that organizations and companies in ag and animal health, maybe in the B2B and the manufacturing space are missing when it comes to their approach to marketing today? And as they're trying to not only reach their core audience, which might be, you know, B2B, you know, a two step, but then also as they reach down to the consumer in the final product marketing.
Dan: That's the $24,000 question and it is big because it's interesting in that, I go back to when I was first to sales rep and we had no technology. We had the cell phone, the bag phone. You remember that with the antenna on the back?
Bill: Oh yeah, I had one. I had one.
Dan: Yeah. And I was threatened within an inch of my life by my regional manager that don't you ever use that phone. Actually, you get on a pay phone and you call in.
Bill: It's like 12, it was like $12 a minute or something like that, right? Yeah.
Dan: Right. Right. Right. You do not use it. Right. And how we had a list of clients and then we would circle where they were at vet clinics on a map and try to figure it out and how we've gone from that to routing systems where you can, you know, put addresses in and it can optimize and all the technology that we have today and how far we've come just in the last 20 years when it comes to CRM programs and you know, all this technology and I think it's a balance of utilizing the technology and also having a relationship. And at the same time, you can go too far on the relationship side and say, well, all I just need is a relationship because all sales and marketing is a relationship. Yes, but you need to bring value. And the way that you bring value is not about you. I think that's the thing that we miss too often. And I certainly see it in my M&A practice, and to make a transaction work and to be able to get greater value for who you're selling the company for as a broker is that you have to understand who you're selling it to and what are their synergies, what are they looking for? And so it's a matter of, again, having the perspective of the client, of the customer. And trying to figure out how you fit in to their story. So first you got to know their story. You got to use technology to access their story. True. But you also have to kind of be genuine in your approach. When we launched the MOO'V product, it was kind of funny because we have all this technology and we're a startup company, don't have great budgets. And we launched with a distributor and we're getting ready to go to a show. Bill, you're probably not going to like this, but I used a direct mail through the mail. I'm sitting there with stamps and putting the stamps on and taking the big wad and, and, I kick it out and I'm at the trade show and we just launched this product and I was shocked at the number of people that walked by. Oh yeah, I know that product. I already ordered that product. I got a postcard about that product. And I'm like, my gosh, direct mail still works.
Bill: Absolutely. Yes.
Dan: And that's when I talk to, like, as I've talked to FFA students in different areas, I've told them be counterculture. I think that the mistake that we make with the technology is that sending an email is not communication.
Bill: Yeah, because communication is two way, right? Yes.
Dan: Too often, we think that when we sent out an e-blast or we sent out an email, and so I can check the box and move to the next thing. If a tree falls in a forest and there's no way to hear it, is there any sound? And the answer is no. And so I think that understanding what your position is, being honest about do you have value or not, being mission-driven is I think key, contributing to something greater and then being authentic. And I think that's the biggest thing that we miss in our marketing. I don't know that I really care about the vehicle, but it is, are you authentic in your messaging? And you can't be authentic unless you understand how you fit in somebody else's world. And in some cases, you don't. And like, I've got another group that I work with and it's a fun group. A little little flat jot at times, I guess. But you know, we have two core like our mission statement, our two core fundamentals is one, don't screw it up. And two, stay out of the way if you're not needed.
Bill: That's a great, that is, you should trademark that and write a book and you'll be on like all the talk shows within a month. I mean, that's so simple, but so true, right?
Dan: Well, we started getting to three, four, five and six, and then we're looking at each other going, well, doesn't one and two kind of cover all the rest of it?
Bill: Yeah, you get you get down to number seven and you're like, refer to number two, because three through seven are all going to violate number two and get in the way, right?
Dan: Yep, yep. We might have added number three, which was use good judgment. And that covers everything. But if you use good judgment, then you're not doing one or two. So.
Bill: Are there, that's right. So a couple of things you said there, Dan, and I think these are really important keys that we need to highlight. One of the first things you said was we talked about pain points or doing things from a client solution perspective. We have a saying around here at 50 Marketing where no one cares about who you are or what you do until they understand or recognize that you understand them, know them and know their problem and can possibly provide a solution to it. Because everybody's out there saying they can do stuff, but who cares? Can you help me today? Can you solve my problem? So I think that 100% is correct. I also think when you talk about positioning and something you said there about accepting that you're not for everybody, a lot of clients that we run into, they're so focused on the entire total addressable market. And let's say there's 10,000 in the total addressable market and they have capacity to deal with 10. They're so focused on the 10,000 that they don't go and get the 10 that would absolutely revolutionize their financial statements, their contribution margin EBITDA, the multiples they could get if they're in an M&A scenario. So I agree with that. A couple of other things you brought up, authenticity. Some of the most successful clients we work with are clients who share the good and the bad. They're, hey, here's their LinkedIn post. We screwed this up and here's how we're learning from it, right? So I think that authenticity piece is critical. And so when we look at the MOO'V product, I mean, I think that's a case study in authenticity at its core. Everything I've seen from the website to the social media, any of the animated QR code cow with the photo, all of those things that even though you use the cartoon, the authenticity and the representation is 100% spot on. So how did that come to be that authenticity in MOO'V?
Dan: Yeah, it's a great story. And it starts out with a fourth generation family farmer and his dad, and they went to a processing meeting. And it was a dairy processing meeting. And every third speaker that got up started talking about plant-based alternatives to milk. And they're like, what are we doing? And so they came back with that saying, look, we want to vertically integrate. And we want to reconnect people with agriculture and with what we do. And they have such a passion for their animals. All in, I think they have a total of 98,000 animals that they're responsible for. They milk 20,000 dairy cows, deliver 220,000 gallons of milk a day, have a calf yard and a feedlot. And the reason I have an opportunity with MOO'V is because they spend every day with their animals. I know quite a few of the large producers in the United States, and all of them care for their animals. And they have a passion, and they're all probably 100% of them, which is maybe an overstatement, but I would say at least 98% of them started in a small farm and still have the same family farm ethic that we all grew up with. These guys are with their animals. They see every one of those 98,000 animals every three to four weeks. And they're looking at mobility. They're looking, you know, they care for their cows. They care for their employees. And their passion is, you know, people's milk. And they look at it and say, look, from a dairy farmer's standpoint, there is no more intimate relationship that a producer has with the consumer. Because what we have, whether it's milk or whether it's meat, they're putting it in their mouth. They're consuming it. And I think that they really capture that thought process of, hey, this is pretty important. And quality is extremely important. The way that we came up with MOO'V is the fourth generation farmer had his wife and she wasn't from the farm and they had a five-year-old and she kept giving him orange juice and juice boxes. And he said, I'm a dairy farmer. Why are you not giving milk? And she goes, well, one, you put it in a sippy cup and you leave it in the, in the car in the middle of Wisconsin in the summer, it's going to smell bad. So it's inconvenient. Number one. And he said, well, what about the single serves? And she said, well, have you ever looked at the amount of sugar in a single serve chocolate milk? And he goes, no, I haven't. Well, if you look at it, it's extremely high. Kids shouldn't really consume more than 25 grams of sugar in a day. There are competitors out there that have sugar at 48 grams. And some of the private label chocolate milks are up to 52 grams. Way too much sugar. And it's not... And so we wanted to bring out a high protein, low sugar, full fat product. And that's the other thing that differentiates... MOO'V is it is a whole milk. And there's this movement, and I don't really remember all the history behind it, but to take fat out of diets. I think we're starting to realize that natural fats, specifically fats in dairy, have a tremendous amount of benefit. There's studies out there that show an inverse relationship between kids that drink whole milk and obesity. The more whole milk they drink, the less obese they are. Why is it? Well, it fills them up. So they're not going out looking for snacks. The other thing is that dairy fats have an incredible impact on brain development. And that's come out. So the real question is, why does the school lunch program require anything but whole milk? And so that's kind of, you know, we're trying to reconnect people with agriculture. We're trying to reconnect people with milk. We want to see if we can't make lifelong consumers of milk. Our tag is Fuel for Life. Because we believe that dairy and milk is the fuel for life, whether you're, you know, need to get, you know, pumped up to go exercise. you know, and we did design this as a kid's drink and people say, well, why, why can't adults drink it? Well, of course they can, but Bill, as you know, marketing, you've got to find your niche. And if we went to the crowded dairy, cooler and said, Hey, we have another milk. We would have never made any traction at all.
Bill: Absolutely. Yes.
Dan: So you have to have what is it that is unique? And ours is unique because it's an ultra-filtered, lactose-free, whole flavored milk with protein at 22 and 23 grams. Our chocolate milk has eight grams of sugar. We didn't launch chocolate initially because we didn't want to add sugar. And we couldn't get the taste right without adding sugar. Because everybody has the concept of what a chocolate milk tastes like. So we did compromise, I guess, to some extent in that we've added cane sugar, but we only have eight grams in a 14 ounce drink compared to 52 grams. And then our strawberry and vanilla only has one gram of sugar. And yet it's funny when I go to trade shows or I talk to people about it, I go, when was the last time you were surprised? And they blush. So I think that's the wrong question to ask. For whatever reason. And so I have him taste it and I go, are you surprised that this is a whole milk with that low sugar? And they're like, I'm amazed because it tastes so good. And so we want to be authentic. I think I came to the company in my past role. I had a pharmacist, his son actually was diagnosed with childhood cancer at age three. And he's now, I think, six or seven, and he's seen as cancer free. And it's awesome. And the reason he's cancer free is, I think, three reasons. One is there was a lot of prayer for that kid. Two, there were really good doctors. And three, he would drink 32 ounces of whole milk every day. And the doctor said if he wouldn't have drank the milk, he wouldn't have had the nutrition to handle the chemo.
Bill: To fight it. Yep, to have the strength, yes.
Dan: Right, right. So then, you know, when this opportunity is presented to me, said, Hey, do you want to you want to benefit kids with better nutrition? It's kind of hard to say no to that Bill.
Bill: Absolutely. No, and I think that what you guys have done there is amazing. I've watched that marketing, watched your efforts there from as kind of like a bystander and as a fan, obviously, because I have a dairy farm as a side project and also just amazed at what you guys have done. So congratulations on that success. I think it's really exciting and it followed some of those things. You guys have addressed what you said was missing, right? You found a niche, you found pain points, you found an opportunity. You really got focused, you communicated that to the market in a very authentic way. And that's, I mean, that's the recipe for success today from a strategic marketing standpoint. One of the other things you mentioned when you started talking about what's missing in marketing for B2B today, you mentioned direct mail. I am actually a big fan of direct mail. I think, so sometimes I think we get in the marketing space, we get too enamored with the next button we can push, like you said, at scale and just get it done, where we really like to dial in what's going to be effective. And the key is making sure you get touch points with your target audience, with your message. And if that is a YouTube video and a LinkedIn post and a direct mail piece, because we work with a company that has I can't remember the exact statistics on it, but it's just all sustainable direct mail. So, you know, some of the folks have been really negative on the direct mail because of the environmental impact and always a wasteful and that type of thing, which is a concern. But the reality is we've been able to partner with someone that is addressed those concerns as well so that it can be a viable part of anybody's marketing strategy. Because at the end of the day, and I think this goes back to why that direct mail piece worked for you. And this is something that we've seen missing from a lot of marketing and B2B is branding. You have to be brand aware in that potential client's mind before they're going to consider you. And if the first time they see you is at the trade show or your salesperson calling them or whatever, they have no idea who you are. The probability of making that buy list, that consideration list is very low. Dan, have you seen how branding not only for MOO'V, but for some of your other clients and companies you've participated with, how branding has helped them move forward and establish themselves in the market?
Dan: Well, and I think you hit on it and that is how do you do the branding? Because if you don't have brand equity and you can't just show up, and I think that's part of the challenge that I always had as a marketer was that I'm working on branding six months ahead before I launched the brand. And I'm actually bored by it by the time it actually goes out to the consumer, right? So I want to go to the next thing. So it has to be consistent, it has to be authentic, and it has to be comprehensive. I remember as a marketer for animal health companies, and I'd have an ad magazine reps come in, bless their hearts, great folks, and they would say, hey, we're doing an article on BVD, and you have a BVD vaccine, why don't you place an ad? And I go, no, I don't think so. And they're like, but there's an article about it. I'm like, I know, but I don't have my Sales Force isn't tuned up. I don't have a direct mail. I don't have an online presence. And so just to put an ad out in your magazine one time for $10,000 is a waste. And so you have to be, I think you have to be, you know, whether it's omni-channel marketing, which I think is, you know, the new term. But it has to be comprehensive. And then are your reps talking the same message that are that's in your publication, that's online, that's in your ads, you know, are you all singing from the same, you know, choir book? And I think that's the challenge for any of us that have a sales staff is trusting people that are they saying exactly what you want them to, which goes back to your culture. How what's your culture like? How have you how have you have you hired the right people? Do they buy into what you're trying to accomplish? And are they authentic? And, you know, one of the things, you know, going back to the FFA kids, I said be counterculture and that is that don't send an email, write a letter, write a note, because everybody sends an email, everybody sends a text, because it's easy. You know, I remember, I don't know if I was at a marriage council or someplace, but it was, you know, my wife, you know, if I get her flowers, and I just drive by because it's convenient for me to get flowers at the grocery store. And I give her flowers and she goes, what'd you do? I go, I got it. It was really convenient. It was really easy. Now, Bill, do you think she appreciates those flowers? As if I would, however, if I went out and picked dandelions or daisies and brought those in, it's the effort that demonstrates the authenticity that demonstrates the value you put on them. And that's the difference. And it is tough to break through all the noise and to you know, demonstrate the value. Because if we think about MOO'V, one thing that we've found is that we've had to hire territory reps to go into stores, even though we have brokers, even though we have the product placed. You know, I spend a fair amount of my time walking into grocery stores that I had a college internship doing this for England's best. I've gone all the way back to being a, you know, a college freshman. But working with people and connecting with them, and again, do you spend your time genuinely asking what is their world like and do you remember it so that you can bring it back up the next time? Because that's what it comes down to. I think you mentioned it. People aren't going to follow you until they know that you actually care, and you can't fake that.
Bill: Well, Dan, I think when we when we look at providing that value and communicating to people. I want to pivot a little bit and ask you about TCQ solutions because you've had a lot of experience working for big companies early in your career. You've had the opportunity and we'll talk about it here in a little bit running a big company in ANIMART, right? I mean, there's a lot of, and now you've decided to package that experience and expertise in a consultancy that you're helping companies. So maybe I don't want to spoiler alert, I'll let you do it. Talk about what you're doing for who, what your niche is, and what you're bringing to the market and value there.
Dan: Well, so TCQ actually stands for our brand, which is T Cross Quarter Circle. So it's kind of a pullback to where we started. I think the thing that I would encourage anybody starting their career out with is that, and it's probably said lots of different ways, but it's your network. It's people, you know, and I think I probably underestimated that early in my career. But one of the main things that I bring to this new role and to my company is just the network of people. And I was pretty aggressive and corporate. I was probably seen a little bit as a maverick because I wanted to try to push the edge. But the thing is, is that I I think that I was always genuine about it, that it wasn't about me, it was always about the company. And even if I disagreed with people or if people, I rubbed people the wrong way, I think I still, I wasn't doing it for me. I wasn't doing it for my career. I was doing it for what we were trying to accomplish. And so I think bringing that network in is key. I can remember stories, you know, somebody. Nobody should ever tell me a story because chances are I'm going to remember it. I'm not a very smart guy, Bill, but I can remember stories. And I bring those up often. But I think that what we try to do with the firm is just invest in people and through that network. And I spend 90% of my time working on the MOO'V product and leading that. And then I'm on a few different boards that I help advise on and utilize the network. I have a kind of a growing M&A practice with mergers and acquisitions. We completed a deal for DairyTech. I think we closed that about two years ago and helped maximize what they were looking for. It's exceeded expectations and so it was a great fit. And then I'm, I'm in the middle of closing one right now. Again, exceeding the owner's expectations of what we could get, but it's about, I think that the key is that I've done enough mergers and acquisitions and I've been on both sides on the sale and the buy. That it's about how you tell the story, what's unique about the company, and then it's finding the right partner. Because if you find the right partner, you're going to maximize the enterprise value for the seller, but also the buyer is not going to regret it six months later. And I think that's as important to me as anything is to identify the synergies for the buyer, which drives value for the seller. And you create that marriage and everybody, you know, succeeds. And that's the key. And again, it's not, you have to keep as much ego as it takes. You've got to keep your ego out of it. And you also have to kind of try to help other people keep their egos out and play the bad guy. I mean, I don't know how many times, Bill, I've been on calls with attorneys and I get off the call and the owner goes, well, you were a little cranky. Well, I was a little cranky, but we got to get this thing moving because as you know, with M&A, time kills deals. So it's speed. And I think it's about on the M&A side with TCQ, it's about that network. Like who's going to buy this and will they return your calls? Then it is positioning it. So that's that marketing skillset. Then it's understanding synergies, being able to communicate the synergies and then working through the process. Because if you've been through any M&A process and diligence, I spend a lot of time talking to owners about working capital targets because that's one of the things that always is a wrench. And understanding that, hey, it's a no blood event. We need to set a target. And it's a target. It's not a reality. And we got to make sure that, you know, nobody gets hurt out of the deal. We don't play games with it and prepare people because we had, you know, when we acquired the company in the Dakotas at ANIMART, I think that was, we spent probably four weeks talking working capital and it almost killed the deal. And having that experience as the acquirer and seeing the seller go through that. I can help position and help the sellers that I advocate for through that process. And then I have a few other clients that I do some sales and marketing coaching and advisement on that. And simply Bill, I think that I have one employee one time, great talent, had tremendous potential, in my office crying. Hated me. And I'm like, we, like your attitude is, is, is bad. And not that you would tell somebody that they have a bad attitude. I don't know that I said that. And I finally came down to, I'm like, what's going on? And she goes, well, she said, well, why is it that you always have better ideas than I do? And I said, why do you think that we're in competition? And I said, the reason that I have better ideas than you do is I've got 20 years of experience on you. And I've made more mistakes than you can ever imagine.
Bill: That's so true. So true, Dan, right? It's not that we're smarter, better educated than younger people. We've just screwed up more. I mean, that's there's so my early career was M&A. My dad did a ton of deals. I think we did somewhere in a neighborhood of 32 merger and acquisition deals together. And that is a different game. And if I have any advice, because I've been on the buy side, I've been on the sale side, right? We exited a business in the early to mid 2000s. We had 14 John Deere dealerships and we exited that business and sold it. If you are going to think about scaling up and selling your company, or if you want to sell it, you need someone who's going to give you really, really good advice and guide you through that process. A couple of things about that. One, it is not your attorney. My dad had an exceptional situation where he and his attorney had done, they did a count one time, they did over 150 M&A deals together. So they were, he wasn't really an attorney's attorney, he was an M&A attorney who was also my dad's best friend and they were like partners, so that was different. But if you just go out and hire an attorney or your CPA, or your regular professional services people, they have their swim lane and M&A activity, but they are not an advisor for M&A activity. You need someone, and there's a plug for Dan, I'm shameless about plugging my guests. Someone like Dan who knows people and processes and how it works, it's so important to have that person and they are worth their weight in gold. So that's, and Dan, I've worked with you on some projects, I wholeheartedly would refer you to anybody in that space. Dan, I think one of the things that positions you really well for that consulting arena is your experience with ANIMART. What you guys did, what your team did at ANIMART to scale and sell that business, there should be a business case written about that. It should be studied. I don't know if it would make it to Harvard, but it would certainly make it in the Midwest where people care about agriculture and those type of things. So I'm going to change gears a little bit on two topics that are a little bit different. AI, agriculture and animal health. AI is exploding everywhere, certainly in the marketing space, but you've also been involved with AI as it is involved with animal health. Could you talk about where you see that going just more from a strategic broad perspective?
Dan: If you're a Fortune 500 company or you have a board, chances are and you're you're an executive, chances are some board member is going to say, what are you doing with AI? And you better have an answer. So what we're seeing, and I work with a company, I'm on the board of DataAg Inc. And they have artificial intelligence associated with facial recognition of animals. And so just like I know Bill by looking at Bill, you know me by looking at me. We can now train computers to look at a cow or look at a horse or look at an animal and know that animal for its special features. It's not on animal, like it's not on prints, like a dairy cow, each dairy cow has a fingerprint that looks unique. Our algorithm and our intelligence looks at eye placement, ear placement, hair swirls, it looks at the animal as an individual and then can tell that it's that individual. In addition, we've developed, we have our own programmers. We do not use chat GPT. We have a product out there that's called Animal Tech Talk. It's on the Apple store. I think it's free. And what it does is it gives you vet level conversations about your pet. So you put your pet in, you got a rottweiler that's like 89 pounds just ate four pounds of chocolate. What do you do? Well, you can ask Ava, who's our kind of our little raccoon, and it's conversational. And you say, hey, you know, Rocky just ate, you know, three pounds of chocolate. Okay, well, here's this, this and this. And we've expanded it to where it is pretty equivalent to vet level advice.
Bill: That's amazing.
Dan: And it's for the consumer. But it's also for the veterinarian. It's interesting because we've talked to vets when a client calls and it's usually an 80-20, like 20% of the clients take 80% of their time and pay 50% less. And so what this potentially would do is a tool for vets to have conversations and get case information from the client that then they can take and then they can make a diagnosis. So we're not
getting involved with the patient-client relationship. But from a consumer standpoint is if your dog ate two pounds of chocolate, we know what the treatment is. You don't need to go to a vet and pay $150. And so that's kind of the platform that Data Ag is doing. We have ACWID, which is facial recognition of horses and checking horses into events and those kinds of things. What we're finding is that if we talk about this and we talk about AI in agriculture, a theme is starting to emerge and that is that people are fearful in our industry of AI because they feel like they're going to be used by AI. Because AI firms will come to them that have Chat GPT or some other open source. And what they're doing is they're coming and saying, give me your data. And if you give me your data, I will help you create value. And then you say, well, how? And they go, don't worry about it. We'll figure it out once we have your data. So what we see is that a lot of companies in the ag sector are worried about AI firms using them. So rather than leveraging AI, it's being used by AI. And so with our platform and the way that we're approaching it, because we can also, you know, trying to figure out how we take a manual. And like if you think about your tractor, right? And you have a tractor manual, okay? I started my 4020 the other day, the starter’s sparking. Not a great deal around diesel and oil to have a sparking starter. I could read through the manual and try to figure that out, or we can adapt animal tech talk and Ava to learn that manual and turn it into conversation. So we have the ability because it's our algorithm, it's not Chat GPT, it's us. We have the ability to work with a John Deere and conversationalize their product manuals. So I can say, hey, my 4020 is sparking, what should I do? Well, these are the things that you should, so I think that's where AI can do is it can increase the connection of companies to end consumers. But it has to be in the context that you control your AI and that you're partnering with a group like DataAg that can enable you to use the information that you, I mean, the millions of dollars that Case or that John Deere put into manual development that nobody reads.
Bill: But if you buy it used from the dealer, you're never going to get the manual. I mean, we used to move 4,000 power units a year at our dealerships, and probably about 1,500 of those would have been used. And if we went back and did an audit, I would be shocked if we got 150 manuals when someone traded in a tractor. It just never happened. So no, that's fantastic. And I think, Dan, you're exactly right with AI. If we look at it as a tool that can make us better and more efficient, and then we'll have to manage the threats, whatever they may be, because there's always good and bad. The technology can be used for good or evil. There's no two ways about it. It always has, always will. So I think that's the right perspective. And I think it's just exciting to see how much technology is improving agriculture and animal health. I'm going to have to give that app to my daughter because I didn't know specifically about the vet talk because she has her dogs and takes care of our cattle and she'll love that. That's a great, great tool. Dan, last thing we like to do is we like to have a little bit of a lightning round where we just ask some questions, fire out and whatever answer you come up with that comes to the top of your head. What do you think is the biggest marketing mistake you see being made by agricultural companies specifically as they go to market?
Dan: Just checking the box, doing something to check the box. I see that, I mean, to make a jump from being in big corporate to startups, it's a little bit tough to do because in big corporations, stuff happened and you don't even realize it. And a lot of times, I mean, as we launched MOO'V and I'm talking to these big distribution groups to place the product and they will do a temporary price reduction or do this or do that. And then I'm like, okay, well, what's the results? They look at me blank. I am not Coke. I am not Pepsi. I'm not a like, you know, my encouragement, if you're in those big corporations and you're a marketer, don't be doing stuff just to get patted on the head by your boss for a marketing plan. And you just check the box and go on. Are you really making an impact? That's the biggest thing is that it where you're spending your dollars, are you getting an impact and are you measuring it? And if you're not measuring it, don't spend it. And that's controversial from a marketing standpoint because you can't measure all your marketing. But if at least you put some matrix around it, then you'll know what's the best, where to spend your money. And oftentimes if you're in big companies, you think you have an unlimited budget, which maybe you do. But when you come to this side and you are a smaller company and you want to do something in the world, you've got to measure it.
Bill: Yes. So our brand 50 Marketing comes from an 1896 John Wanamaker, the father of modern advertising said half or 50% of my advertising is wasted. I just wish I knew which half. So we totally believe in that contrarian view, right? That we have to figure out what we're going to do. It has to be a value. We have to measure it. It has to have impact. So that, that, that's great. if, let's see here. Is there anything else you think, and we talked about a lot of topics that you think is missing from marketing today, both from a strategic standpoint and then from a tactical delivery standpoint. And you might've just answered that in the last one, but.
Dan: Yeah, I think it's at the end of the day, do you really care? Be honest with yourself. And that's if you're an executive leader, do you really care about your people or are you an empty suit and you know you need to ask three questions and then move on to the next thing? And I think if you care and you want to make a difference, then that'll come through. There are a lot of people that don't care and make a lot of money. I wish I could figure that out. I don't know what that looks like. And again, it's easy. I mean, if we go back and look at this, maybe we spend a lot of time talking platitudes and you want to be cautious of that. And it's really about details and, you know, an email sitting down for two hours doing emails really not work. No real work happens in an office. What happens is outside. And I think that if you're, if you're struggling with marketing ideas or you're struggling with positioning, get out of the office. If you're a marketer, go ride with your sales team. I've never had an idea in a, in a, in an office, Bill, I've had thousands of them when I'm talking to producers or I'm with reps, or, you know, with any customer. So I think the thing that is missing is what kind of foundation are you building by being in the market? And the ideas and the tactics and the strategies will come the closer you get to the people that are consuming your product.
Bill: Classic example of this. We're working with a company right now that called us up, contacted us and said, we'd like to talk to you about doing our marketing. Went and talked to them and I won't go into all the details, but they said, we know you have experience in this because you have a farm. They said, we talked to 10 other agencies and not one of them had a clue. Right. And not to disparage those other businesses or whatever, but they just did not have experience in the specific product vertical that myself and some of the other team members have here because we participate in that agricultural space. So I think you're exactly right. We also really are championing and changing the way we do customer interviews for our clients because we want to not hear it from the client anymore. We also want to hear it from their clients to make sure there's validation before we build an entire program around these presuppositions that may be false. And then, you know, you invest millions of dollars into this false presupposition and then guess what? It fails because not because the work wasn't good, not because everybody didn't try hard, but because we just didn't get the positioning, the pain points, the questions of the answers right. When you look at the ag and animal health industry from a marketing perspective, do you feel the industry as a whole is behind on marketing? Is it catching up? Like, where do you see it in its like maturity and its life cycle?
Dan: That's an interesting question because it assumes that I know the other markets out there as a benchmark. So I don't know. I can tell you that I think one of the things that is coming out with, you know, as we do move and as we do quite a bit on social media and we have a great social media marketing person, and I think we do a pretty good job.
Bill: Yeah, absolutely. It's fantastic.
Dan: But what it is, is it's about authentic. Is it real? And I think that we potentially in the ag side have a tremendous opportunity to be ahead of any other industry out there. Because who can really relate to Coke being produced or tennis shoes, right? Like what's authentic about that? Like there isn't, like nobody goes out and grows their tennis shoes, right? So I think we, where people are looking for non agenda, what's real and connection. Ag across the board, whatever you're doing. if you're selling vaccines or if you're selling animal health or you're, you're selling tractors or seeds or, you know, food, you have the opportunity to connect on an authentic level that no other industry has. And I think we can use that to attract talent to our ranks. And I think if we're authentic, and the other thing is just as a side note, one of the things that frustrates me the most about ag industry is that we think that we're a zero sum game. That is that if I sell you a heifer, every dollar that I get more out of you, you lose and I win. And it's kind of that commodity trading, you know, it's innate in our industry, but we shouldn't be critical of other people. Cattle producers should not be critical of swine producers. Swine producers should not thumb their nose at poultry. We're so small, we need to work together and we need to stop the division internally. And if we lose from a marketing standpoint, I think we've got a great story. I think we've got great authenticity. Sometimes we're our own worst enemy.
Bill: Yes, absolutely. I think the opportunity that I see in the ag community is to tell that story, content marketing, and we don't have to get flashy. You know, we don't have to overcome the problems. So like the iPhone and like there's all these stories about the way they mine the minerals and all those negative things in like China and those types of things that are humanitarian crisis. That they have to overcome to get you to spend $1,400 on a new iPhone. In agriculture, we have products that people can eat that can make them healthier and do better. And we have good stories and we have amazing animal husbandry practices. We have amazing environmental care that these farmers are providing for their land. And we just need to tell that story. And I think we will see a resurgence and kind of a boomerang effect of respect and reverence for the agricultural community and the products that we produce and provide to the market. So I 100% agree with you on that, Dan. Thank you so much for coming and sharing with us about your professional experience in marketing, in M&A, in strategic growth for companies and everything you do. I just really appreciate having you today.
Dan: Bill, it's been great to be with you and we've made that connection. I think your group is fantastic and couldn't recommend your team higher. And so I just appreciate the time to spend a little bit of opportunity to talk about these things.
Bill: Excellent. Thank you for joining the Missing Half podcast where we're discovering what's missing in manufacturing and B2B marketing. Have a great day.